ZION I & THE GROUCH: AGAINST THE GRAIN INTERVIEW [PART 2]

In the conclusion of TWV's chat with Zion I and The Grouch, the collective opens up about the future of West Coast Hip-Hop, politics in the age of Obama and why the evolution of music is like skateboarding.

The Well Versed: I think if you make good music and you’re a talented individual and uncompromising in your message, people gravitate towards that regardless of whatever you’re talking about. I think Zion I is a great example of that. What I’ve also noticed is that West Coast music in general is getting a lot of light right now. Whether it’s older cats coming back with new projects like Mack 10 & Glasses Malone or [newer acts like] a Fashawn or a Dom Kennedy or an Odd Future. Not to say that the West fell off, but it seems like there is more attention now. Does it feel that way in The Bay or are you at a point now where you don’t pay that much attention to the trends and who is on the cover of what magazine?

Zumbi: I definitely pay attention, man. I’m a fan of this culture as well and I feel as an artist it’s important to be a fan, stay humble and learn from your peers. Especially the youngsters. They’re doing a lot of dope things as far as not trying to follow the cookie cutter format for Hip-Hop. That’s very inspiring from an OG perspective. The West Coast is interesting to me because I feel like the West Coast cats are really utilizing the blogs and it’s very connected to establishing the fan base and staying one on one with the fans. Cats aren’t really trying to necessarily do the label thing. It’s more like, “OK, I’ve got some dope music. Check it out. I’ve got my blog. If you want to hear my music, come to my blog.”

Out here, people are coming to the shows, they’re buying merchandise, they’re buying a CD. It’s just like a very organic process so maybe that has something to do with why the West Coast is where it is right now. It’s definitely inspiring to me.

TWV: Has it always been that way out West, would you say?

Zumbi: I wouldn’t say always, but there’s definitely always been a sense of community music-wise. We were in Atlanta and that’s one of the reasons we moved out here was because my family was out here. I remember when we left Atlanta and we came here and we did an independent show and I started passing out our cassette tapes, our EP cassette. I started passing them out and within a couple of months there was just this buzz about, “What is Zion I? Who is Zion I?” People were running up on me like, “Yo, you got another EP? You got another tape?” I was like, “Damn,” because we were doing the same thing in Atlanta for months and months. I’d go to the shows and pass out the tapes and then I’d see the tape on the ground, never really got any feedback. It was tough. But once we got out here, it was like the feedback mechanism was already in place. The people were already like, “Yo, what’s up, man? We’d like you to do a show.”

TWV: You’ve been active politically throughout your career, in a sense. From your support of Prop 21 to bringing attention to black owned businesses in the Bay Area. California is in a rough time right now. Budget crisis. The economic situation happening across the country is absolutely highlighted by everything that’s happened to California over the past five years. California has always been a progressive state. Whatever happens in California tends to spread throughout the rest of the country soon after. How are you feeling about the political landscape out there but also the state of America? You talked about how you have friends having breakdowns and people going through a rough time, but if you turn on the TV [to any channel other than the cable news networks’] you don’t hear that as often. It’s an odd paradigm we’re in.

Zumbi: That’s why I really don’t watch TV that much. I don’t have cable at my house. This whole tour -- I watch the game, I watch some videos, I watch movies. I don’t just sit there and watch TV because it’s so unrealistic. It’s so paper-Mache for me right now, just in life. I really just try to tune into my inner voice, what my intuition is telling me and my own insights instead of being overwhelmed with all these other ideas of what’s important. Politically, economically, yeah, California is definitely going through it. The real estate thing is crazy. People can’t find jobs.

During the game yesterday, they had a quick news flash and people were going to the train out here -- it’s called the BART -- and they’re putting up these signs like, “WeAllNeedJobs.com.” And they’re sitting at the BART putting up these things but they’re all white! They’re all white dudes and I was tripping because I’ve never seen that in my life. It was like white people -- white men, white women at the BART station talking about, “I need jobs.” That’s a new one. I’ve seen a lot of Mexicans, a lot of black cats out here trying to get jobs like just sitting on the block or whatever. I’ve never seen white folks have to do that so it just kind of tripped me out with where things are. These are like middle-aged people. These aren’t like college graduates. These are forty, fifty years old people you see and normally [assume] they’re probably doing decent but they’re out there struggling. It’s weird to me.

TWV: I tend to think cynicism is a good thing. I don’t think we ask enough questions, broadly speaking. I was looking at Yahoo! yesterday and on the front page of Yahoo! News there was an article on black unemployment rates are closer to 18-19 percent, where the national unemployment rate is around 8 percent. It’s an interesting paradigm to have at the same time we have the first black President. We can only hope for the best in the future and maintain our focus.

Zumbi: Obama won the presidency and I remember immediately after that, there was an interview where people were asked, “Oh since now Obama is President, you guys don’t have any problems now, right?” And I’m like, “What, Obama got everybody out the ghetto, too?” It’s just like, “Oh you killed Bin Laden, so we got jobs now? What, taxes are cut in half?” What does that really do for the everyday person’s life? The world is safer? Your security at the airport has to go up when you kill him? I don’t get it. All these little things.

TWV: One of the things we’re also seeing across the nation is “reverse white flight.” All the white people left the cities for the suburbs in the 1950s and 1960s and are running back to the cities now. Rents are going crazy. You have $200 thousand dollar starting prices for condos and co-ops. You see it all over the place in New York City. A lot of the historic neighborhoods where artists of all types thrived, they don’t live Manhattan in numbers anymore. Whats it like in the Bay Area? I’m unaware, but I feel like San Francisco might be a similar to Manhattan.

READ THE FULL INTERVIEW @THEWELLVERSED.COM

ZION I & THE GROUCH: AGAINST THE GRAIN INTERVIEW [PART 1]

It took three weeks to catch all three members of Zion I & The Grouch.

What was originally intended to be a sleek, thirty-minute interview before the Brooklyn-leg of their sprawling, twenty-five city nationwide tour, quickly morphed into segmented conversations. Two separately at The Knitting Factory. One over the Blackberry—twenty-one days later.

It makes sense. Heroes have responsibilities.

Zion I and The Grouch (as part of Livin’ Legends) are nearly two decades deep into their perpetually progressive careers. Album after album, they’ve consistently tight-walked the line dividing artistic integrity and commercial resilience, reinventing their sound while maintaining their message. Amp Live, Zumbi and The Grouch teamed up for 2006’s Heroes In The City Of Dope. In 2011, they expanded on the eclectic series with Heroes In The Healing Of A Nation -- all while remaining devoted husbands, fathers and champions for their many fans.

The Well Versed and The Bay Area luminaries talked much about life and the way America is going in this segmented conversation. We talked about family and politics and how the youth are ably etching their own names into Hip-Hop’s talisman. And of course, we talked at length about Heroes In The Healing Of A Nation.

The Well Versed: Mind Over Matter debuted eleven years ago. Since then, Zion I’s consistently performed and traveled and continued to build on its legacy, but you’ve also been very good at reinventing yourself and changing your sound. Is it difficult to not get complacent?

Zumbi: You know what? I don’t think it’s difficult to not be complacent because that’s really just what’s in our DNA. We don’t really like doing the same thing over. It gets boring. It’s been like that for us for some reason. Even while we were making Mind Over Matter and even before that -- there’s an essential adventure that comes with the music for us. It’s not really about replicating things or copying what’s cool. It’s more about discovering a new space within yourself or discovering something new about who you are through the music. It’s always this constant progression and constant push to try new things or fuse different things together. I’m thankful because that small aspect of what we do has really invigorated our career. It’s separated us from other people. I thought everybody was like that but you start to see there is a formula for a lot of cats. For us, we just try to keep pushing and discovering new things, new territory.

TWV: How do you think the formula comes about? I’ve noticed that too and I think that’s one of the things that distinguishes Zion I from many acts. Sometimes I feel like artists stumble into accidental success and then receive a lot of pressure from the label or their management to recreate that and are limited in range because maybe they achieved that success prematurely. What’s your take on it?

Zumbi: I definitely see that often, especially these days when you can make one catapult to international success. I’ve seen it. Cats even up here in The Bay. This one dude did a video. He had like 8 million hits in two months. The difference was he was a genuine talent and so when they asked him to do all of these commercials and everything, he was like, “Nah, I’m cool,” just because he recognized that if he did that, it could put him in a situation where, “You’re that guy.” Once the world sees you as something for the first time and it’s so big, it’s kind of hard to redefine yourself in people’s minds. Even Lupe Fiasco’s last album, from the reports I read, he had a very difficult time with [LASERS] because [Atlantic Records] wanted him to recreate “Superstar” over and over again. So, yeah, I do see that. I think it’s just part of the age we live in. The labels aren’t making as much money as they once were so they’re trying to make their money on sure bets. It kind of unbalances everything in terms of making pure art.

TWV: Amp, how real did it feel to get a cease and desist from Warner Bros. for the RainyDayz Remixes of Radiohead’s In Rainbows?

Amp Live: [Laughs] How did it feel? It felt pretty real seeing that emblem on a piece of paper.

TWV: Did you expect that?

Amp Live: The thing about that situation, it sort of opened me up to a different fan base because you have all these people who -- I mean, I’ve done official remixes for the major labels.

TWV: A bunch of them.

Amp Live: A lot. So, it wasn’t a big deal but then to some people it was like, “Oh, who is this dude? I’ve never heard of him.” Then all of a sudden Warner Bros. just sent the letter. It was just like, I wasn’t too surprised. I was just like, “OK, I guess I got the attention of the publishing company.” But a lot of that situation escalated because my publicist and Pitchfork started getting the ball rolling and saying stuff without me even saying anything and I think after all of that, it just messed up into a big media thing. Sort of just a whole bunch of things I had to learn.

TWV: When I’m listening to your most recent project, Heroes In The Healing of a Nation, it feels like an eclectic album. Its hollow drums and base heavy at points. Sometimes it sounds like it could be on the soundtrack to a 1990s black movie. I can see some of these songs on “The Best Man,” for example.

Zumbi: Oh wow! [Laughs]

TWV: Especially when I listen to “Victorious People”, for example. But just the eclectic range and the instruments and the message is always there -- “I Used To Be A Vegan”, “Be A Father”, “I’m A Leader.” That’s always been very consistent with Zion I throughout your career. Are you at a point now where can’t nobody tell you nothing? Because it seems like when you have a prominent message, there’s less of an avenue for that music. At least that’s how it seems on a shallow level.

READ FULL INTERVIEW @THEWELLVERSED.COM